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Author Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword  (Read 809 times)
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Iri
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« on: November 24, 2011, 04:50:05 am »

The discussion topic! Please hide your spoilers and give a vague impression of where they are in the game so we don't unspoiler them blindly!

GAME-BREAKING GLITCH WARNING I've outlined what is known about this glitch in this post: http://cuccoscratch.com/forum/index.php/topic,1846.msg25754.html#msg25754

For the actual discussion:
Something I want to establish- Skyward Sword is a prequel to Ocarina of Time, and therefore to the rest of the series.

The series' official (yes, it is official, supported by interview 'Word of God' and the final games themselves) timeline goes like this:

Skyward Sword -> Ocarina of Time

After OoT it goes a bit funny. OoT's time-traveling shenanigans effectively left the game with two separate endings.

OoT's 'child' ending (after Link goes back to his childhood at the end of the game) -> Majora's Mask -> Twilight Princess

OoT's 'adult' ending (the version of Hyrule where Ganon was defeated by Adult Link and sealed away) -> The Wind Waker -> Phantom Hourglass -> Spirit Tracks

Nintendo hasn't made the positions of the rest of the games explicit, and the games themselves don't make it completely clear, so when people talk about the 'official timeline,' the above is what they are referring to.

Of course, this knowledge isn't necessary to enjoy the games- they are deliberately made to be viable as stand-alones. It's just fun universe lore for those who care to look a bit deeper.

Anyway, onto my thoughts on Skyward Sword specifically:

I got this on release and have been playing it relentlessly. I absolutely love it. I do have some little niggling problems that I might go into later, but for now I want to remark that where I last saved the game had completely destroyed my expectations story wise- in a good way. Specifically, it appears to have broken the series' lore as established previously. I'll go into it in the spoiler tags.

Note that you should not open this spoiler tag if you haven't completed the dungeon that fills the top and final spot on the item wheel. You have been warned.

« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 10:19:18 pm by Iri » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2011, 05:11:43 am »

fuuuuuuuuuuuu escort mission whyyyyyyyyyyy

WHYYYYYYYYYYYY  

I will conquer your horrible existence tomorrow, escort mission!


In response to what Rhyme said in the shoutbox:

Quote from: Rhyme

 So whether whatever happens actually fits into the "lore" or "timeline" doesn't really matter, but should be really interesting to find out.

In response to my having said it 'breaks the lore' in some way:

It matters to me!  

But seriously, what I wanted to say was that if you're not familiar with the lore you won't pick up on it as early, but you WILL notice that something is 'interesting,' as you said. If you're familiar with the series' lore/how the 3D games fit together, you might pick up on it quickly (as I did), but even if you're not, something almost the same happens next that should tip you off and have you going 'WAIT, WHAT WHAT WHAT'

So yeah. I'm excited to see where this is going. Hopefully I'll get far enough to fill out a few answers tomorrow (but I've heard it implied the game is longer than would be expected via the dungeon progression, so we'll see).
« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 06:36:03 am by Iri » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2011, 02:20:54 pm »

About the timeline thing thought that you stated, how come Mr. Aonuma and the developing team have made statements such as these:

"You know, at one point we had drafted a timeline and wanted to make it available online. We showed it to the guys in Japan and they basically told us that it would be best if we didn’t post it. They do have a timeline that has continuity between the games, but they wanted to keep it open for how each player views the chronology of the series. There are a lot of connections between the games, but they do have a timeline that has continuity."...

..."I wouldn’t call it a disconnect. Just that the developers feel that posting a full narrative would take away from the players’ imagination. Part of what makes the series so special is the legend that spans across the series and they wanted to preserve that in the players’ vision. It’s also why they have never given Link a voice. The story is told as if the player is Link. Giving him a voice would eliminate that attachment.


You can find more in the September 2011 issue of NP with Kirby on the front.  I think that the timeline that you stated is what the fans most logically accept, but unless you can show a statement from an official Nintendo magazine or website that has someone from the development team confirming said timeline, I will always conclude that it is fan made.

Also to the fact that they are all different Zelda's that her brother after Links Awakening made it so that every princess would there after be named Zelda.  And that Link you can change the name, but it's always just a hyrulian boy with blond/brown hair made to wear the green hero's clothing.

For me, it's personally more fun just to look at each game as it's very own game with it's own timeline and story.  While some of them connect together because of "lore" which makes it more fun and interesting.  And of course you have WW, PH, and ST that I think were deliberately made on the same timeline, but still have different Zelda's and Links.

But I don't really know anyways, I never got past the water temple in Oot or TP and I never played MM.  Nor did I play the original games on the NES or GB/GBC.  I've only played ALttP and Minish Cap completely hahaha


As for Skyward Sword... I'm LOVING the game.  Controls are amazing! Still at the first temple though and will be there for quite some time since I won't be around to play today or tomorrow.  So next time for me is Sat and Sun.  Then I work a LOT Mon and Tue, I have off Wednesday but I'll be packing up my wii for a 2 week vacation in which I hope to beat the game while down in Florida ^_^
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« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2011, 04:27:45 pm »

Um, from your own quotes:

About the timeline thing thought that you stated, how come Mr. Aonuma and the developing team have made statements such as these:

"You know, at one point we had drafted a timeline and wanted to make it available online. We showed it to the guys in Japan and they basically told us that it would be best if we didn’t post it. They do have a timeline that has continuity between the games, but they wanted to keep it open for how each player views the chronology of the series. There are a lot of connections between the games, but they do have a timeline that has continuity."...

..."I wouldn’t call it a disconnect. Just that the developers feel that posting a full narrative would take away from the players’ imagination. Part of what makes the series so special is the legend that spans across the series and they wanted to preserve that in the players’ vision. It’s also why they have never given Link a voice. The story is told as if the player is Link. Giving him a voice would eliminate that attachment.



They say there's one right there. They've never come out with a single interview laying it out (as far as I know), but they've confirmed different parts of it in pre-release interviews and the games themselves.

They've also never revealed the entire thing, just the 3D games + DS games connections.

So I'm not sure what you're arguing...?

Quote

Also to the fact that they are all different Zelda's that her brother after Links Awakening made it so that every princess would there after be named Zelda.  And that Link you can change the name, but it's always just a hyrulian boy with blond/brown hair made to wear the green hero's clothing.

I'm... not understanding how this is relevant? (By the way, it was Zelda II, not LA).

Quote

For me, it's personally more fun just to look at each game as it's very own game with it's own timeline and story.

Well, yes, they're deliberately made so it's perfectly acceptable to take them completely individually. In fact, speaking of story only, and not background references (like the OoT Sages symbols being on a texture in SS), there's exactly one thing in the entire series I can think of that requires timeline knowledge to explain. One.

Quote

While some of them connect together because of "lore" which makes it more fun and interesting.  And of course you have WW, PH, and ST that I think were deliberately made on the same timeline, but still have different Zelda's and Links.

So... we agree then...? (WW and PH Link were the same one though).

When people (sane people, anyway) talk about the official timeline, they're not saying it's some hyper-rigid structure that includes all the games and will never change. It's just "hey, the stories and settings of these games connect together in a cool way over several centuries." It's a fluid thing; we all know Nintendo's likely to append games to the front or back of it, or even insert them into the middle if they feel like it. As much as they claim to have a giant document fitting them all together, the impression they give off is that it's little more than a vague idea, especially considering how a game's placement is usually decided late in development (and it therefore must have a good amount of wiggle room, with how different the games are from each other).

Quote

But I don't really know anyways, I never got past the water temple in Oot or TP and I never played MM.  Nor did I play the original games on the NES or GB/GBC.  I've only played ALttP and Minish Cap completely hahaha

Why didn't you finish them?

Quote
As for Skyward Sword... I'm LOVING the game.  Controls are amazing! Still at the first temple though and will be there for quite some time since I won't be around to play today or tomorrow.  So next time for me is Sat and Sun.  Then I work a LOT Mon and Tue, I have off Wednesday but I'll be packing up my wii for a 2 week vacation in which I hope to beat the game while down in Florida ^_^

I wish I had a two week vacation to just plow through Zelda!

I was under the impression that I was over the halfway point in SS, but the way people are talking about the endgame and all the stuff you have to do, I'm starting to think I'm not as far over the halfway mark as I thought I was. I still think I'm over halfway, but maybe less far along than I had anticipated...

I really like the controls too. The only one I have a problem with is the lunge. It seems far less responsive than the rest of the sword strikes.
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« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2011, 01:00:54 pm »

I never finished because I got frustrated hahaha. And now the timeline thing makes more sense. I've only seen hardcore fans talk about it like its complete doctorie and make a huge deal out of it.

I happen to buy the guide and so I can give you one suggestion that isn't spoiler. Whenever you see blue birds try and catch them. They are very rare and you need 14me feathers to fully upgrade your gear later in the game.

I can't wait to play it more hehe it will be the best vacation!!!
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« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2011, 04:38:44 pm »

I never finished because I got frustrated hahaha. And now the timeline thing makes more sense. I've only seen hardcore fans talk about it like its complete doctorie and make a huge deal out of it.

Yeah, the impression I usually get from people who insist the timeline doesn't exist (I'm talking about those far more opposed than you were) is that they don't seem to actually understand it. They think it's all set in stone and no games will be set in the middle, or whatever. The 3D and DS games are pretty much set in stone strictly in their relationships to each other, but that doesn't mean stuff won't be added in whatever direction they feel like at the time.

Quote

I happen to buy the guide and so I can give you one suggestion that isn't spoiler. Whenever you see blue birds try and catch them. They are very rare and you need 14me feathers to fully upgrade your gear later in the game.

I can't wait to play it more hehe it will be the best vacation!!!

I've been grabbing those most of the time when I see them. Currently though, there's only one thing I have left to upgrade (well, last time I checked, anyway).

I've heard about what might be a game-breaking bug near the endgame (not far from where I am, actually), so I'm desperately hoping I don't hit it, and that's it's not actually game-breaking and can be worked around somehow.

On a more positive note:

Okay, so last night I got MAULED BY STORY and got assigned what should be the last set of tasks before the end boss. Stuff's getting serious now. It was interesting in that the way it twisted was simultaneously somewhat unsurprising and completely surprising.

You know when you get really into a fictional universe (I think this usually happens with books, but with games, movies, and tv shows or whatever else too) and something happens that is so awesome yet crazy you don't even realize you have this ridiculous "I am so overdosed on happiness right now" grin stuck on your face?

I went to bed with my face like that last night.

I fucking love this series.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2011, 05:27:32 pm by Iri » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2011, 05:12:35 pm »

Go somewhere to try and do a sidequest -> get mauled by a scripted sequence I was hoping would happen later

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« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2011, 08:51:03 pm »

Well I'm finally back home, and after I take a bath and get out of my stinky cloths (was at my parents where everyone smokes and I get sick from it) then I'll get into some nice comfy pjs and play the rest of the night away.  I'm hoping to at least finish the first dungeon tonight.
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« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2011, 09:09:36 pm »

Well I'm finally back home, and after I take a bath and get out of my stinky cloths (was at my parents where everyone smokes and I get sick from it) then I'll get into some nice comfy pjs and play the rest of the night away.  I'm hoping to at least finish the first dungeon tonight.

Have fun! The first boss can be fairly challenging if you don't know how to fight him. (One of my favourite bosses. )

And you can always ask for help with whatever if you need to. :3 (Oh god that sounds patronizing; I swear I'm not trying to be).
« Last Edit: November 25, 2011, 09:18:16 pm by Iri » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2011, 09:24:27 pm »

LOL you're not being at all.  That's why I got the guide actually.  Mostly because when I leave next Thursday I won't have internet access on a computer, only my phone so I got the guide in case I get stuck. 
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« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2011, 09:40:29 pm »

I just realized I haven't seen even a single "shoot the eye to activate the switch" thing in the entire game. Not one.

I approve.
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« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2011, 11:40:32 pm »

I'm glad you two are enjoying the game. I actually have a copy of it laying around, but I probably won't get to it till Wednesday. Maybe I'll have time to start it tomorrow.

So, as a quick aside, does this game usurp "The Minish Cap" as the first game in the timeline?

Edit: Actually, is Minish Cap even really part of the timeline because it was made by Capcom? So confusing...
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 05:59:09 am by Cecil 12 » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2011, 01:38:37 am »

The game is amazing and make sure to have a good 4 hours just to get started anything less to start will leave you hanging

And as far as the timeline goes, it comes before OoT so yes it would be considered the very beginning.
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« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2011, 08:35:03 am »

Never mind, I found eye switches. :| They look so different from normal I forgot about them, lol. And they run a bit different from normal mostly, so that's good.

Rhyme is right about the timeline bit. MC was never really placed clearly. SS is meant to be the very first. I have the clearly placed games in the first post; the rest are finicky and more subject to change on Nintendo's whim.

As to where I am in this game, I just entered the final dungeon and solved a bit of it. I have no idea whether the end boss resides at the end of it (like most of the series), or if I'll be fighting it somewhere else entirely (like the DS titles). Skyward Sword is breaking all the rules, man!

Oh god, I'm scared. So close. So close.
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« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2011, 01:17:43 pm »

I was going to say, the very first dungeon had eye switches, they just weren't ones you had to shoot.  It was a pretty cool concept though I have to say lol, but there were a total of 6 of them I believe hehehe.

Oh I bet you're excited.  I'll play a bit more today and hope to make it through the second dungeon.  So how many dungeons are there?
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