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Author Topic: Innovation good or bad for gaming?  (Read 692 times)
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PM_NiGHTS
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« on: January 24, 2008, 05:01:02 am »

With the success of innovative systems like the DS and Wii innovation is a topic everyone is talking about. Some argue that innovation is hurting the industry by making it too casual. While others think it is great since it opens new grounds to new ways to play. So what is your take on this subject.
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MAGNUS-8M
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« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2008, 06:15:27 am »

I'm not sure the two ideas are really all that related....innovation doesn't automatically mean 'casual gaming', although yeah I'd agree that some people might feel that it is just by association.

If you just think of the basic meaning of innovate, every new game is an innovation unless it's just a straight-port with new level designs or some basic tweaks.  You could say that the Japanese SMB2(Lost Levels) didn't innovate at all....and yet, you could say it did just because it threw in things like poison mushrooms, "wind", Luigi's jump height(I think it started in this game, if not, it was the USA SMB2), and the infamous 'invisible-coin-block-of-death' and other 'unfair' traps.

But really, as a whole, SMB2-Lost-Levels was hardly innovative at all, especially compared to all of the side-scrolling Mario games that released after it.  I don't know the sales data on that game, like how well it did in its first run in Japan, but I don't remember it being very phenominal, if it sold well at all.


So really, it depends largely on what sort of 'innovations(changes)' are made to the newest game in the series, or if it's a new game, how it differs from the rest, and if it's a new system, if the new changes are enough or work well in concept and in useage.


In other words, 'don't make new crap and think it's better than old crap....but don't keep making the same old crap either'.


I don't think there's any real, concrete side to this.  It's good and bad, same with everything else: the real key is knowing how to use it properly, or when to not use it.  "Innovation" as a word has been so overused anyway, and I think it's really starting to lose its meaning....half the time, 'innovation' seems to take on a negative aspect because of the way people have abused it or made something stupid look epic.  Honestly, I'm tired of the word and could do without it.


NOT innovating(ugh), however, is definately just as bad.  Sure, yeah, you have the advantage of making what everyone has established as something they like....but you can't just live on the same thing forever.  I don't need Contra 50 after I've played through 49(or so) of them previously.  Personally I'm sick of the 'hard core' trend: looking at X360 and PS3, you get the idea that the best-games-ever are always shooters, whether they're third person or not, and that everyone likes them.  I don't.  There are very FEW "shooters" that I like, even if I did count the Metroid Prime games. And I can definately say that I look at those two systems, and the first games that come to mind are almost always FPS games, and if not, 3rd Person shooting games(and after that, probably sports games).  RPGs are also a 'hard core' type of game that rarely innovates in anything REALLY different, save for a few tweaks to its battle system and stat-records.  When they do innovate, it can be good, but they have a reputation for having very similar battle systems, and it can start to really bleed through once you get to the 'obligatory level-grinding' sections of the game, no matter how good the new story is.


Anyway, I just think this is kind of double-edge....you can't "not-innovate", but you can't over-innovate.  It's less about how casual a game may or may not be, because you can definately innovate beyond simply making the game easier or make the control-interface different than we're used to.  It's more about how different newer games are from previous games before it, and whether those changes make for a 'better' game, a good game in its own class, or worse than before.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2008, 06:17:29 am by MAGNUS-8M » Logged

BigBadBoo
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« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2008, 01:54:02 pm »

As Magnus said, Innovation doesn't always mean "casual," but it does happen to be what Nintendo's going for. Their innovation is amazing, but it's not used to the potential the we, as core consumers, are looking for. Right now, Nintendo is using their innovation to capture the casual gamer (does anyone remember using this term so much 10 years ago? ) and that is leaving those of us behind, I feel.

I'm not happy with much of Nintendo's strategy at this point. Maybe we're just in a dull spot for core gamers, but I don't really find that to be believable. We've got Brawl due out in two months and Mario Kart Wii by the end of the Spring season. No More Heroes just came out (which looks amazing). That's about all I can name as far as games that I think most people would be interested in the near future or at present. I read the article on Nintendo.com the other day that detailed all the games to be released through June. I can safely say that those are the only ones I"m really interested in myself.

Where am I going with this? I think Nintendo's focus on its innovation and its drive to pick up more consumers is not a bad one - it's the basic idea of economics. What I don't appreciate, though, as a consumer of Nintendo products for quite a while, is the feeling that our opinions and voices don't mean anything anymore. We'll get a few titles here and there to keep satisfied, but that'll probably be it. I actually really loved the Gamecube. Its lack of third party support meant that Nintendo's own studio had to keep craking out titles, and we know most first-party Nintendo games are worth the money. I think the Nintendo studio is getting lazy now. They're focusing on the marketing instead of the product, and it's easy for third pary devs to just throw some motion controls on a party game and for it to see to the "casuals."

I feel put off right now. I will buy Brawl, and I will by MKWii, but I most likely won't be happy about giving my money to a company that I feel doesn't care about its core consumer base. Maybe I'm wrong for thinking this, but who got Nintendo to the position it is today? We did. Economics dictates that businesses are going to try to make the most money for the most amount of people possible. Apparently that isn't us anymore, guys.

That's why I also have a 360 to supplement my gaming needs.
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2008, 06:43:50 am »

I prefer the innovation in the stories and ways to integrate multiplayer, not the  controls. 
I wasn't ever truly impressed with touch screen.

And I HATE the wii pointer.

I want deep, driving stories with fast-paced (but not too difficult) gameplay to move it along and get the adrenaline rushing.   I will play other games... but they don't satisfy me fully-- I want more.

I want to be truly immersed in the game like I used to be. It sounds like you all are describing a similar feeling.



I want a game that makes me think about the real world. It's not about superficial things like art style, or gimmicky, "simple" (dumbed down) controls to me.

I guess I really don't like innovation for innovation's sake.

I love games that integrate old things. Fairy tales. References to old literature. History. It excites me to find what appears to be similarities in games to things like that.

ToS's references to Norse mythologies (Yggdrasil/giant tree) made me happy because it gave me more to look into.


I kinda like "complicated" controls as opposed to the silly "point and hit A!" thing.
It's the oversimplified stuff that frustrates me. More buttons = good. The motion sensor stuff is alright...  but it's gimmicky right now and seems to be an excuse to only use 2 buttons.


Finding new ways to play games with others is huge with me too. For Nintendo, new includes online. With my closest friends being very far away geographically, I really want more of this...

I also love playing games with siblings, or even just watching them play against/with each other. And it's been forever since my parents have played a multi-player game together, but they used to really enjoy that too.
Super Mario Galaxy works well in letting me help/be helped by a sibling. Whoever thought up that cooperative option... thank you.

The DS's online play has been good some nights. I want more from the Wii. Brawl looks like it will deliver on that, and I'm hoping hard that it does.
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« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2009, 10:53:32 pm »

Innoviation makes a game a much more enjoyable to me. It can open doors for not just particular series, but gaming genres as well. Having innoviative controls makes me see the creativity of the development team for the game. I like to see what developers do with the features of the Nintendo DS, whether it is using both screens to show the adventure, using the touch screen to cast spells, or using the touch screen to wield a gun, and of the Wii, whether it be shooting with the Wiimote as your gun, using the Wiimote to throw a green shell, or using the Wiimote to play music. The innoviation shows me how much effort a developer actually put into the game and lets me see just how abstract and creative their thinking is. Innoviation separates the lazy developers from the hard working developers in my mind. With innoviation, it makes the game and the console look good in my opinion mostly. I am definitely a fan of the term, and I look to see more innoviation appearing in the later games that hit the Nintendo DS and Wii.
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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2009, 01:42:44 pm »

Like others have said, innovation =/= what the Wii and DS are doing.

Personally, I love innovation. I don't want to keep on playing the same game over and over. It's boring. I'd rather every game in every genre mixed things up a little so they're all different! Like for example, Persona 3 (I'm playing it right now xD)? I have never played a game like that before. While the level grinding isn't too great, it's pretty amazing how you make friends with people a la dating sim to become stronger in battle. That's innovation.

As for the DS, I love it. Great handheld.

Wii is having a bit of a problem starting up, but I hope that it will finally get on it's feet and become an enjoyable console.
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