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Author Topic: Zelda: Majora's Mask (N64)  (Read 840 times)
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terrisus
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« on: January 30, 2008, 06:36:53 pm »


Zelda: Ocarina of Time for N64 was heralded by many both before and after its release as quite possibly the greatest game to that point in time. Regardless of whether one held it in that high regard, it certainly was a very well-received game, to say the least. Living up to that sort of standard certainly wasn't going to be easy. With the SNES, Link to the Past was the only Zelda game that console received. With N64, however, after work finished on Ocarina of Time, soon after work began on a follow-up in the Zelda series. Originally work was done on a 64DD expansion to Ocarina of Time itself, but with the 64DD having long delays, and even when it came out only being released in Japan and with only a small handful of games being released for it (none of which being the Ocarina of Time expansion), hopes for a new N64 Zelda game would have to shift back onto the N64 directly, and in the form of a separate game. While Majora's Mask certainly is a separate game, it shares many things in common with Ocarina of Time, where someone who enjoyed Ocarina of Time and was looking for something more was likely to be quite happy with the result. Something so similar to a game so highly regarded might seem like an easy success. Unfortunately, there was one change in particular which had a dramatic effect on the package as a whole.

Majora's Mask picks up soon after the conclusion of Ocarina of Time. It's not necessary to have played Ocarina of Time first in order to understand the storyline, but, that would be a good game to play first regardless. In either event, after the events of Ocarina of Time, Link heads off with his horse Epona. Along the way he is attacked by the Skull Kid, who runs off with both your Ocarina of Time, and your horse Epona. Of course, it wouldn't be very nice of Link to just let his horse be stolen like that, so, he chases off after them. After finding them, however, he is transformed into a Deku Scrub by the Skull Kid, who runs off yet again. Being a little bush-like creature certainly isn't going to make finding his horse any easier, so now there's the new task of figuring out how to change back to himself. Proceeding further along he encounters the Happy Mask Salesman, another familiar character from Ocarina of Time, who tells him that he can transform him back to his normal form, but he just needs a little bit of help with something he wants in exchange. He's going to be leaving in three days, however, so he would appreciate it if you would be quick about things so that he can get going. Leaving him and going out into the open, Link finds himself in a completely new town, similar to a town he might encounter in Hyrule, but yet very different at the same time.

Without walking through the full events leading up to doing what the Happy Mask Salesman wants, the short of it is that it culminates with you recovering the Ocarina of Time from the Skull Kid, learning a song which brings you back to when you first arrived in this new place - more on that in a moment - and showing it to the Happy Mask Salesman. He shows you a song to play on the Ocarina which not only changes you back to your normal Link form, but produces a mask of the Deku Scrub. Masks, and the Happy Mask Salesman, are again something which is familiar from Ocarina of Time, but in Majora's Mask the masks play a much more central role. Unlike Ocarina of Time, where a mask was simply placed over your face and its effects were limited to some different dialog, in Majora's Mask, special masks allow you to take on the form of the creature in the mask. So, with the newly created Deku Mask, Link can put it on and take it off to switch between a Deku Scrub and his normal form at will. This is great for Link, but unfortunately not quite what the Happy Mask Salesman was looking for. In fact, what he was looking for, Majora's Mask, it seems is in the hands (or on the face) of the Skull Kid. So, while Link has gotten what he wanted, he still is obligated to recover what the Happy Mask Salesman wanted as well.

The three day time limit that the Happy Mask Salesman gave you isn't just something that's important to him, as if he has a dinner date to get to or something. As you'll discover as you're chasing around the Skull Kid and getting your Ocarina back within that initial window of time, you'll notice something ominous coming down overhead. It appears that the moon that's over the world is getting closer and closer, and by the time your limit is almost up, it's nearly on top of you and ready to crush you. So, waiting around more than three days isn't something that would be possible, as it appears there wouldn't be anything left to explore after those three days are up. Fortunately, having recovered his Ocarina, Link quickly learns a song to play on it which sets time back to the beginning of that three day period, when he first arrived in this new land. Back at the beginning, the moon is high overhead and the danger of imminent destruction is removed, at least for the moment. So, he sets out again to work on getting what the Happy Mask Salesman wants, which, as one might guess, involves plenty of adventure and journeys over the new world in which Link now finds himself.

This new land - Termina - is quite different from Hyrule, but many of the general ideas of the land are quite similar. The initial area in which Link finds himself is a town bustling with people to talk with who will give you information, shed light on problems, assign tasks to be completed, and all sorts of other interesting things. After venturing outside of the town, Link will find himself in a large open area, which can be explored and in turn leads to other side areas where new tasks will be found, including dungeons and other enemy-infested areas to conquer. So, little by little Link will begin to explore this new world and all the troubles it contains, and figure out what it is he needs to do here to solve all of these issues. The only problem is, that moon is still there, and it's getting closer by the minute.

Time limits in games are nothing new. Whether it's simply a timer counting down which isn't usually anything to worry about and just gives some points at the end of a level like in Super Mario Bros. 1 or a more pressing counter such as a specific time limit to solve a puzzle in a puzzle game, timers can provide a bit of guidance or a sense of urgency in completing tasks. In a wide, expansive game like the Zelda series presents, however, it's something much less familiar. The counter is for three days, but it's not three days of real time but instead a much quicker counting down of these days which passes before one has a chance to come anywhere close to accomplishing all of the goals the game has to offer. Instead, as opposed to heading off on a long journey, the process of completing goals is going to be interrupted when the moon gets too close for comfort. Playing the song to return to the beginning of the three days, which is also the only way to do a permanent save of the game, saves some things, such as finding key items, but resets many things, such as the amount of quantity-related items collected, rupees, and other similar things. More significantly, however, it also returns Link to the starting town every single time he plays it. So, if he had wandered over a large expanse of land to find his way to a dungeon and had made his way through a large part of it, he is going to have to literally retrace his steps in order to get back to where he was and resume what he was doing before feeling oppressed by the moon.

Unfortunately, what this means is that quite often the game has a large feeling of urgency and rushing to it. In some games this might not be a problem, and in fact might make things more interesting. In a game like Zelda, however, where there is so much to do, so much to explore, and such a lengthy journey ahead, this constant heading back to the start and resetting of many things can put a huge block in the way that one might otherwise choose to play a game like this. For instance, if one had the urge to spend some time exploring the main world, or the path on the way to a dungeon, that's all well and good, but it would likely mean there isn't enough time left to actually complete the dungeon, meaning one is going to have to head back to the beginning and start over again. Again, some things are saved, and fortunately there are various "warp points" of sorts which Link can use to jump back to an area close to where he had left off, but there will still be much retracing and re-doing of previously done things in order to get back to where he had been before. There is also a song which Link will learn which will slow down the passing of time, which is very helpful. Still, however, there remains that threat of the timer counting down below, which always is creating a rush to finish up what needs to be done before running out of time, and the frustration of needing to repeat so much after restarting, which makes it very hard to take time out and just wander and explore, and creates a very different pacing and feel to the flowing of the game.

The central core of the game, again, is very similar to that of Ocarina of Time. This isn't, however, to say that Majora's Mask is an exact copy of that game, and in fact there are many new and interesting things presented by this game. There are new items which will perform different tasks, which can have some interesting results. As well, as noted, the masks play a much more integral role in the gameplay than they did in Ocarina of Time, actually transforming Link and granting him different powers and abilities. The Deku Scrub mask is just the first of a number of shape-changing masks which Link will discover, and one of a large number of total masks to be found. In addition to the central masks which have a dramatic effect like that, there are also many other masks to be found which are just placed over the face while Link remains in his normal form, but which have different effects on some of his regular abilities. Many of these masks are optional and don't need to be found, but can provide a challenge to find all of these extra things, and seeing the different effects they can have. Indeed, Majora's Mask is full of many interesting side-quests like this. Yet, there is again that concern about the time limit imposed by the game, which makes the urge and ability to head off on side-quests much less appealing or convenient. Indeed, side-quests practically become their own individual quests, as one needs to set aside a specific cycle of days and time to head off to accomplish it, before saving and going back to the beginning again. They're less something that can be done to the "side" of the main quest, but something which either need to be done on their own, or which draw too much time away from the main quest where it is going to result in needing to go back to the beginning before finishing up the main goal one had wanted to complete and having to start over much of it again.

There is much to see and do in Majora's Mask. There are a wide variety of lands to explore and discover, both with familiar themes and new. All of these areas are beautifully created with intricate detail and fascinating to look at and explore. Of note, Majora's Mask requires the N64's Expansion Pack, and is unable to be played without it, as it uses it not just for an optional improved graphical look as many games do, but as an integral part of the design of the game. In addition to how everything looks, there are also the beautiful sounds and music to listen to while exploring all of these areas, again with a wonderful mix of familiar songs and new and interesting songs unique to this game. As well as all this, Majora's Mask has its own story, unlike what one is familiar with or what one might expect. Both the overarching story of the game, and the sidequests and pieces of the story one learns along the way really serve to draw one into the game, and to become immersed in this new world in which Link finds himself.

Yet again, however, everything always seems to come back to that time limit imposed by the game. Majora's Mask offers a wonderful experience in gameplay, but unfortunately it is impossible to extricate it from the time limit that is such a central part of how the game is constructed. Everything positive about the game - the wide areas to explore, the side-quests, all the new and interesting things which are able to be done - are always qualified with the note that there simply isn't the freedom to do them in an enjoyable way, but instead constantly needing to feel segmented and interrupted by the returning to the beginning and repeating much of what had already been done. It would have been wonderful to be able to explore and experience this game without that moon and that timer always counting down, but considering how central the timer is to the game it wouldn't even really be a practical request to be able to play through the game without the timer - say as an extra mode after having beat the game - since it's so inexorably linked to how the game is created.

So, what is left is to see that this game is brimming over with possibilities, but which are cut short and damaged by that omnipresent timer. To be sure it creates a different experience - one of urgency and rushing and a constant demand to be quick about things - but is in direct contrast to how it would be best to experience an expansive and involved game of this sort. The journey will be over far too quick, in large part due to the rush to get things done before running out of time. Certainly there are plenty of interesting things to go back and see and do after having beat the game, and will be much easier to find the time to do with the main goal taken care of, and quite possibly going back afterward and doing all the extra stuff without needing to worry about the main goal is a more enjoyable process than the actual initial time through the adventure. As a follow-up to Ocarina of Time, it at the same time offers many of the same concepts which were so enjoyable about that game, while presenting many new things of its own. Still, the total package leaves a feeling of disenchantment, at all the possibilities presented by the game, crushed by the overbearing presence of a moon.
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MAGNUS-8M
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2008, 03:36:20 am »

Well, I know I've said these things before but...well, I'll say them again.


Out of all the Zelda games, I seem to like the 'side quest' series best, with my favorite pretty much being Link's Awakening.  Majora's Mask isn't exactly a close second, or even fourth-best, but I like it for what it does different.

As an aside...I'm not sure if I remember this correctly, but I think the N64 Expansion Pak not only prettied things up a -tiny- bit, but it mostly increased the draw-distance much further, and allowed more than just a few enemies on the main map, which was nice, it suddenly felt much more believable I think because of it, but still.

And the timer thing.....again, I just.... I dunno, I somehow appreciate it for the most part.  Call me crazy, but I just like how you have this time limit, and yet you're able to reverse everything and go back to the way things were.  You're able to do things over and over again, but you're only given enough time to do so many things at once, at the risk of missing certain people if you're doing people-quests(a feature I really liked).  It sort of makes each 'trip' unique...in one instance you may have gotten some of the main quest done and let the town go to waste, but in another trip, you were able to 'save' a few people and make them happy for a little while...but in the next, in order to help someone else or start on your adventure again, you had to sadly watch as those people once again went through the same cycle without you.  Sort of like....you might be the hero, but you don't have the time to do it all and save everybody all at once ---- cue Marty McFly, "Wait a second... I'm in a TIME MACHINE, I've got all the time I want!"  I guess that's what it sort of boils down to, why I find it appealing I guess.


True, it'd be great if there were just MORE time.  I wonder if that'd upset the balance though....yes, you'd feel less threatened, but maybe with a moon looming overhead, you should.  Either way, at least 30~60 more minutes would be nice.  That way you still feel uncomfortable about it, but as far as dungeons and a few very-very time-centric tasks go(like the process for getting the better sword-upgrade), it'd be nice to complete them without feeling too exhausted.

Also, a few things should have stayed with you, or remained changed.  For instance, unlocking the Goron Race or the bomb you need to unlock Romani Ranch/Farm(without waiting for the guy to open it when it's too late to help out).  I especially LOVED Romani Ranch, so it ticked me off that I had to go through all that trouble just to open it up each time(although it seems like I could get the bomb again a little easier than the race track and sword-upgrade, which required you to fully 'defeat' that same dungeon over and over and over again).

Another small thing I liked was that the bosses were replayable....something I wished OoT would allow.  Of course, these bosses weren't nearly as 'filling' in my opinion, and some were practically impossible.  The dungeons were also a little difficult in design, and weren't too interesting to boot.


But I do think the 'characters' really make this game special.  The first thing I did on the internet was join a role-playing site, so right away I had to learn a lot of writing ability(and subsequently that was when my art began to improve, because it was text-based and I wanted to show people what my characters looked like).  But something I can definately appreciate are good characters, and the story that was involved seemed to touch each one in their own unique way.  It's sort of like seeing your favorite cartoon/anime/TV-show characters during the 'non-episode' times, times when they're not scripted to give a catch phrase or play out a supporting role.  It seemed like it was a living world with people who were each busy trying to figure out what they were doing, and it affected them little by little, day to day, up until the final moments when you had to quietly say a little 'good bye' and restarted everything all over again.

Anyway, yeah, I can say that as a whole, Majora's Mask isn't my favorite game, not even my favorite Zelda game, but I really like what they went for, and you gotta believe writing the script for every character, event, and area was really a great effort.  I think if we'd had gotten the same Ocarina of Time engine and another game that more or less followed the same pattern, it wouldn't have felt quite as special.  Possibly...but either way, I think I can really appreciate the direction they took for what they were able to do.
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2008, 11:48:56 pm »

I've never agreed with the idea that the three days limit exploration.  In fact, I think it almost heightens it.

Take three days out of your life.  Now imagine the choices we make from second to second and the effect they have on our lives.  Those choices number beyond the hundreds, thousands, millions and climb to near infinity.  Now imagine having the ability to go back and make another choice if only to see what might happen instead.  Some changes might be subtle, but some can be drastic, life altering even.

Now what we have with Majora's Mask is admittingly far smaller in scale.  It is, after all an N64 game.  Even modern games can't begin to hold the multitude of choices that could be made within a world.  It's the reason why your knave can't decide to salute the fuhrer if it's not in the game.  Too much data.  Regardless Majora's Mask offers, in a limited fashion, a look into the exploration of the same three days over and over.  Sure, there is an urgency, but only  during dungeons or sidequests that require time, and even then when the player is set on going through it and not having to do it again, thus cutting off that extended exploration.  While repeating a dungeon probably won't cause any interesting developments, repeating a side quest can.  Take the Anju sidequest.  When done "properly" you'll reunite Kafi and Anju together at the last minute, gaining you the Couple's Mask.  However, skip a step anywhere down the chain and there are REAL consequences.  There's no starting over in an immediate sense.  Majora's Mask gives the player the chance to really fail and to see the fruit of it.  If that isn't motivation, I don't know what is.  In virtually every other Zelda game Link can stroll around Hyrule for all eternity and Ganondorf will wait.  The moon won't.  Anju won't.  The world will NOT wait for it's hero.  Of course technically you can dawdle all you want, going back in time, but in the scope of the game there still is that looming threat.

Okay, so I rambled beyond my point a bit there into another one.  Still, I have to say that the exploration is still there.  It's just not the care free feel it used to be, which is so more more appropriate for someone trying to save the world.  In that sense Majora is a FAR more effective villain then Ganondorf has ever been.  Ganondorf has to wait for the player to be stupid enough to lose health, a very out-of-universe way to die.  The moon falling and destroying existence?  Now THERE is a real show stopper.
 
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« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2008, 02:44:26 am »

If that isn't motivation, I don't know what is.  In virtually every other Zelda game Link can stroll around Hyrule for all eternity and Ganondorf will wait.  The moon won't.  Anju won't.  The world will NOT wait for it's hero.  Of course technically you can dawdle all you want, going back in time, but in the scope of the game there still is that looming threat.

It's just not the care free feel it used to be, which is so more more appropriate for someone trying to save the world.  In that sense Majora is a FAR more effective villain then Ganondorf has ever been.  Ganondorf has to wait for the player to be stupid enough to lose health, a very out-of-universe way to die.  The moon falling and destroying existence?  Now THERE is a real show stopper.

Ack, I knew I forgot something that I wanted to say... and that was exactly it(I wanted to talk about Anju too, but I kept thinking in my mind that Anju was the grandma, and I didn't want to sound really weird(Hey Kaffy, gran'nma Anju's here, time for yer date!).


And I think TTL will agree, but I definately don't mean any of these differings against you Terrisus(it's just my opinion as far as I'm concerned), cuz MM is definately a quirky game, and even I would like a few more minutes or even an hour more, but I don't think the game would be itself if it was entirely without that urgency to make sure you KNOW you can only do so much, and try to make decisions based on what you want/need to do.  *shrug*
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« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2008, 04:51:38 pm »

Magnus: Yeah, while I don't know all the specific details of how the Expansion Pak was used in this game, I assume that it is a more central part of the game, as you discuss. I mean, what the Expansion Pak is, is more RAM, which can be used in a variety of ways. It just happens that most games only made use of it for an optional improving in graphics, and so that's what most people relate it as being. As with a computer though, getting more RAM (or a game having higher RAM requirements) doesn't just improve the computer's/game's graphics, but can be used in a variety of ways depending on how the game decides to use it. Majora's Mask, one would assume one way or another, decided to use it in a more interesting set of ways.

In any event, I agree with your core description of the timer, and that it works great for side stuff and making each trip unique and such. Still, I just don't feel it worked well for the overall game. Maybe if the game was just a collection of sidequests and extra things to do (which it can be after one has beaten the game), it would've been fine. Still, with having to worry about completing the main quest as well, it just really got in the way of things.

As you touched on, and I probably could've spent more time addressing as well, the extent to which things were lost after restarting was really annoying. I really don't see any reason stuff like arrows and stuff in bottles and such couldn't have stayed the same. Sure, they're easy enough to get again, but it meant that after saving and restarting, one had to always run off and get all the stuff one needed again. It really didn't seem to add anything at all to the experience of the game, and was just an added hassle.

I did like that the bosses were replayable, it was a nice addition, but again having so much reset after saving was a pain. For instance, as you said as well, after being the snow temple place, I saved before going to do the Goron racetrack, only to realize everything was back to being frozen after saving and I had to go beat the temple again. Obviously it's great they let you warp directly to the boss, but yet again, it was just an added annoyance, having yet another thing get reset after saving.


Legend: I agree that the flow of time is more "life-like," but, I disagree in that having to stop everything and go back after three days is horribly un-lifelike. For instance, being close to beating an area but having to go back because you're out of time, is like firefighters trying to put out a fire in a building, but part-way through saying "Well, we put out some of the fire, but, our shift is over, so we're all going home now. The fire will probably pick back up and your building is likely going to burn down now, but, oh well, that's life," or a police officer going to save someone who was being attacked, but just as he breaks down the door and enters the building, saying, "Well, it's time for me to go home now. Hope everything works out alright for you" or something. It's just extremely unrealistic. Yes, the officer might get there after the person has already been attacked and the attacker has left, but, it doesn't mean he's going to reset and go back to the beginning, it just means he's going to have to take a different course of action. Those actions are going to continue right from that point though, not having to go back to the beginning. So, maybe if the game changed what you could do based on how quickly you did it, that would've been more interesting. Again though, going back and having to start things over again just really doesn't work for me.

So, basically, I have no problem was a day cycle, and obviously it was used really well in how the people had their daily schedules and everything. It's the "Stopping after three days and having to go back to the start" that I had an issue with, and which, as I said, really isn't very realistic as far as being lifelike goes. Yes, it certainly creates a very different feeling for the game, and definitely plenty of challenge and such. Just, as I said, I really didn't think it was beneficial to the game as a whole.

Still, obviously it's not like my take on things has to be the same for everyone. That's just how I felt about things. If other people enjoyed it, that's great. Just, I really didn't.
I do appreciate both of your thoughts on it though, and it's always interesting to see what other people have to say as well
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« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2008, 09:38:02 pm »

Quote
Legend: I agree that the flow of time is more "life-like," but, I disagree in that having to stop everything and go back after three days is horribly un-lifelike. For instance, being close to beating an area but having to go back because you're out of time, is like firefighters trying to put out a fire in a building, but part-way through saying "Well, we put out some of the fire, but, our shift is over, so we're all going home now. The fire will probably pick back up and your building is likely going to burn down now, but, oh well, that's life," or a police officer going to save someone who was being attacked, but just as he breaks down the door and enters the building, saying, "Well, it's time for me to go home now. Hope everything works out alright for you" or something. It's just extremely unrealistic. Yes, the officer might get there after the person has already been attacked and the attacker has left, but, it doesn't mean he's going to reset and go back to the beginning, it just means he's going to have to take a different course of action. Those actions are going to continue right from that point though, not having to go back to the beginning. So, maybe if the game changed what you could do based on how quickly you did it, that would've been more interesting. Again though, going back and having to start things over again just really doesn't work for me.

So, basically, I have no problem was a day cycle, and obviously it was used really well in how the people had their daily schedules and everything. It's the "Stopping after three days and having to go back to the start" that I had an issue with, and which, as I said, really isn't very realistic as far as being lifelike goes. Yes, it certainly creates a very different feeling for the game, and definitely plenty of challenge and such. Just, as I said, I really didn't think it was beneficial to the game as a whole.

I can understand your dislike of it, and to be honest I can't say every time I didn't quite get through a dungeon or a sidequest I was ecstatic about having to do it all over again.  In all reality it's extremely frustrating.

That said however I don't think that makes it unrealistic at all.  This is a fantasy adventure after all and the context of which this beginning and ending cycle repeats is well established.  It's really nothing like a firefighter leaving the fire near the end because of neglect.  It's more akin to a CD stuck in a loop. However, the CD will probably not go any faster or slower to finish the track, so the comparison isn't perfect.  Regardless when Link is forced to go back It's completely realistic in the span of the game. 

So I can side by the idea that it's not your thing, among MANY others, but to say it's not realistic seems a bit odd when talking about a game that involves transformation masks, a somewhat scaled moon with a face and time warping ocarinas to call something like going back three days to repeat a cycle unrealistic.    You might call it unnatural for the typical game, even the typical Zelda game, but unrealistic isn't the word I'd use.

Neat to discuss though, many people just pass over MM, regardless of what they liked, didn't like, thought made sense etc.    I'm glad just to bring back memories about it!

 
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« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2008, 12:11:00 am »

Oh, I completely agree that, since it's a fantasy video game, it can choose to do things however it would like to do them. It's a game after all. It could have anything it wants. I was just pointing out that, a three day cycle which forces one to stop at the end and go back to the beginning wasn't "life-like," any more so than having people standing around and waiting for you until you choose to fight them or talk to them or whatnot. Certainly the game can do it that way if it wants, just that, being "realistic" in the sense of the actual world wouldn't be a reason behind doing it that particular way.

So, with that given, it gets back to the question of whether or not the way the game chose to do it within its own world (which, again, it could choose any method it wanted) worked well with the game itself. Which, as I said, I don't feel that it worked well in the game at all. That, I feel it would've worked much better if it didn't force you to start back at the beginning every three days, and that the only reason for doing it was because the game arbitrarily chose to force you do so (and because it was part of the storyline, of course, but again that's the game's choosing). That was my reason for discussing it that way in the response, was that it came down to how the game chose to do it, and that I didn't feel it worked well.

In any event though, as I said, that was just my take on things, and how I felt about the game. Again though, certainly other people are more than welcome to love it, and definitely many people do. Just, really wasn't my thing. Still, definitely wouldn't tell anyone that they couldn't enjoy a game, and, glad that you enjoyed it.
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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2008, 01:16:58 am »

Yeah, I see where you're coming from.  I think unrealistic was the only reason I pushed it further.  You'd be surprised how many people don't realize the difference between real world "realism" and that for the world inside a game.  I remember having a "conversation" with someone who was defending how Wolf Link sounded while howling during Twilight Princess, namely horribly ruining the tune, as "more realistic".  Silly huh?  I couldn't see how making Link howl in tune would ruin "realism" in TP for the life of me.

So stating that you felt it clashed with the game is different then what I thought you were saying.  That makes full sense because of the different viewpoints and whatnot.  I getcha' now. 
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terrisus
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« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2008, 03:00:49 am »

Yeah, it was a rather roundabout way of saying what I was trying to say, and was really more confusing than it needed to be to make the same point.

Ah well, it's certainly not the first, nor the last, time I've been more roundabout and confusing about something than I needed to be
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TheTrueLegend
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« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2008, 07:43:52 am »

Here here!  I think we can all attest to that happening sometime or another.  If I could count the number of times I've confused people on the Zelda board back at Nsider.    Good times, good times. 
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